Matt Wolf Was not Paul Reuben’s first choice to direct a documentary about his life. No one was really. From the beginning of the project that would become ”PEE-Wee as herself“Reubens insisted that he could and should-control his own story. It often created clashes with Wolf, the 43-year-old director who brought the story of the actor who is otherwise called PEE-Wee Herman to the screen in a two-part documentary for HBO. This struggle is below the surface of many documents.
But the couple continued, with Wolf’s team that dug through a large archive with pictures and photos, and conducted new interviews. This gave an in -depth, unclear look at the artist’s life and career. Reubens, that died of cancer in July 2023Would not live to see the completed project itself.
Tell us about the day you met Paul.
There was a moment of Starstruck silence for me, but it faded pretty quickly. I just started having a normal conversation with him, but just outside the gate it was intense. He said: “I want to direct a documentary myself, but everyone recommends me against it, and I don’t understand why.” So I said back, “Well, I’m here to talk to you about me directing a documentary. So why don’t we have a conversation to see if there can be a way for us to collaborate and develop a process that works for you?” That began what would become
Hundreds of hours conversations.
Part of this project involves the relationship between you and Paul. He wanted to Direct their own cause, and you had to go in as a director and find a way to get your vision over. Can you talk about that relationship?
I could talk to you for 20 hours about this. I think the movie shows it. It was a power struggle between us, and I believe, while Paul felt he had a strong perspective on his story, was the bigger question that he had lost control of his personal story in the media. So there was a lot of fear and anxiety to allow a documentary filmmaker like myself, especially a younger person, to take the reins and be at the helm to tell their story. That prerequisite for itself was very confusing to Paul. That said, I think he was a smart and knowledgeable enough person to know that someone else may have had a unique perspective to tell his story and that he chose me. Paul wanted to be involved in a very extensive way – I don’t think he even had a certain vision about the film, but because the idea of losing control was scary for him.
You open part 2 on this topic, with a very fun scene by Paul essentially prank you by facetiming you and saying: “I want to be in the room and help dictate the interviews with people who are not myself.” Before you knew this was a bit, what exactly ran through your head?
It was not unlike many conversations I had with Paul that was not a joke. So, you know, you see me laugh, but it’s not because I think it’s fun. That’s because it was my way of handling curve balls that came to me every day. Paul definitely tested boundaries and tested the boundaries, and I had to roll with it. I had to get involved every day and to field requests that were sometimes outside the kingdom of what I was comfortable with as a documentary filmmaker. So you know at the same time, Paul had incredible humor. He was the most fun person I ever met, and we had a lot of fun together.
One of the things that really stood out for me in part 1 is your love
For these ragtag productions of art that humans do. I know
As you studied under Kelly Reichardt and grew up and looked
Queer and independent cinema. How do you think these interests fit into the PEE-Wee project you did?
What appeals to me about PEE-Wee Herman and Paul as an artist is that he was a world builder. And I think people can still be world builders in a really scary way. We can call that sensitivity point, do-it-yourself, work with what you have, learn by doing. It’s just a way to look at it, and that was the kind of cultural moment of punk. I think how “The Pee-Wee Herman Show” gathered is deeply inspiring to me. There were a bunch of people who are really gifted and had different skills and interests that gathered and brought their talents to do something outstanding.
What would Paul think about the reception for this documentary?
Paul is not here to speak for himself, so I’ve always been awake to not speak for him. But you know, Paul is a postum nominated. He was an executive producer on the film and he was nominated. I’m pretty sure it would be so meaningful to him. I mean, Paul is one of the biggest artists ever in the TV medium. He used television as an artistic medium and to be recognized by comrades, I know how much it meant to Paul, and I think it would have been really important to him. I don’t know what he would have thought about the movie. I don’t know how the movie would have come out if the circumstances were different, but I know that what is happening to the movie now is something that would be meaningful to Paul.
A version of this story originally appeared in the comedy issue of Thewrap’s Awards Magazine.
